Rumors - Right or Wrong #019

This picture is of the Thames Barrier (this is a side-shot). It was designed to hold back surge tides and to help in slowing or stopping storm surges, such as the one that hit New Orleans. IT IS NOT THE SAME TYPE OF LEVEE as those that are needed or exist(ed) in New Orleans.

From the UWA site, above:

It should be noted that BETWEEN those piers are the gates:

It should also be noted that after the 1965 government consent to build a barrier, various designs were proposed. "The design had to allow cargo ships to pass through while holding back surge tides in emergencies." In 1972, construction began and it was done in 1982. (Total time from Government ok to start, 7 years; from Government ok to Completion: almost 20 years.)

Yes. It's a very "elegant" (at least from the side, as above, following is a "working" picture with all main section gates closed. (Each gate is wide enough to allow ships through...).

This converts (04/2006) to around $2BILLION dollars. (Remember... This was 1980s pounds and on ONE river.)

Ok... The gates are made of steel and are "semi-cylindrical".  HOWEVER, if they were seen after being overtopped and "toppled" after a major event, they would probably seem as insubstantial as the capwalls from the top of the earthwork levees in New Orleans after THEY were breached.

Something to remember here, is that in the 1970s and 80s, the whole US, New Orleans included, would have gone "a whiter shade of pale" if ANYONE had proposed spending $2Billion (yes, with a "B") on this type of project.

The following pictures are from Google Earth.

The Thames Barrier is way up-river from whence the surge would come, and way down-river (around 20 miles), from the city it's protecting. (I realize that much of the whole area here is probably considered "London", with the marked spot being the British equivalent of either the center of the city or "the courthouse" as all US measurements seem to be taken. This would mean there would be flooding "below" the barrier, right? What about all those people?)

The following is a Google Earth picture of the Katrina-affected area. Note ALL the (very) low-lying areas and water - rivers, lakes, bogs, marshes, etc. And how CLOSE New Orleans is to the coast.

It would take a lot more than ONE "Thames Barrier" to protect New Orleans and all of the towns and cities that were damaged/destroyed by the storm surge, thereby costing MUCH more than $2-3BILLION dollars.

(Yes... I understand the point of this email is that the New Orleans levees look more like the concrete retaining walls built to hold back small landscaping hills, etc. But if you're going to propose something, make sure it's the same TYPE of thing!)

Sidenote: The Discovery Channel series, Perfect Disaster, posits a storm surge large enough to top the Thames Barrier, thereby flooding London. Search for MegaFlood on the Discovery Channel's website. There are currently (08/23/2006) no TV listings for show encores, but Discovery has been known to do so, numerous times. Keep an eye out for it. Meanwhile, here's a little info from their website: Discovery Channel - Perfect Disaster [Mega Flood], and from All Info About Family Screen Scene (about the series' prior run): Perfect Disaster - Extreme Weather TV Series.

Based on a study in 1937, to help guarantee safety at times of storms and high sea levels, the first solution available to the Dutch was to close all local river mouths. In 1950, the first was closed, and the plan was to close the others in the coming decades. However, a flood in 1953, that killed 2000 and flooded more than 150,000 hectacres (579.2 square miles) made people realize they needed to do something quickly.

20 days later the Delta commission was formed to give advice about executing the "DeltaPlan" (the name given the plan to close all river mouths. By 1958, a storm barrier was built, and by 1961, two more river mouths were closed.

By 1971, seventeen sixty-meters-wide sluices were running, and a dam, south of the Haringvliet dam, was finished almost a year later.

Following is a map of the original project and a Google Earth Image of the same area. The barrier in the email, above, is Oosterscheldam (Eastern Schelde Dam), located near the lower-left of the map(s).

According to the original plans, the Eastern Schelde would be closed, just like the other river mouths. However, all other dams created fresh-water basins with salt-water from the sea only allowed in to keep the inland waters from freezing, Resistance because of the economy involving the salt-water fishing industry and the conservation of the area's "unique" eco-system, caused the government to agree to an ...

For more information on the he Oosterschelde storm surge barrier and to see a video of it, go to

Deltawerken - The Oosterschelde storm surge barrier

Construction on this barrier started in 1978 and completed in 1986, a road was constructed and last activities on the barrier were in 1988.

This ONE storm surge barrier cost 2.5BILLION Euros. This converts (04/2006) to around $3.1BILLION dollars. (And again, remember... This was 1980s euros and on ONE river.)

While the Dutch solution (the whole DeltaWorks Project, not just this one barrier) sounds like it might work for New Orleans, IT was started in the 1950s and, I believe, is STILL going on today (over 50 years!)

Americans have been conditioned to QUICK FIXES, not those that will take DECADES. After it was started and going for a couple of years, there would be major complaints about it taking so long. Remember that at least 1/2 the work would have to be done in hurricane season.)

AND, Americans would certainly complain about the cost.

Oh... And the statement about the Oosterscheldam in the email "... protecting an entire nation ..." is wrong. This ONE barrier was NOT designed to protect the nation. DeltaWorks in general was, but what's shown in the picture is NOT DeltaWorks. It's ONE PIECE of it (as you can see on the maps.)

Therefore, once again, we are comparing two different types of levees and levee systems.

In 2001 the MOSE project was announced. In 2005 work started and was stopped by lawsuits claiming environmental and municipal violations. Venice did not ask for it and have protested. Environmentalists have protested, to no avail. Still it was approved. It appears the project will go on, though there will be protestations and problems all the way. The plan would cost between (two different estimates) 3bn and 4.5bn euros (04/2006 conversion - between $3.65 and $5.5BILLION) and take 6 years to complete (2011).

The following two pictures of are the Venice Lagoon entrance shown in the picture from the email. This seems to be the place the MOSE Project proposes on placing the hinged platforms.

They are only talking about one "entrance" to the lagoon. There are a couple of other entrances to the lagoon, so I don't know that taking care of this ONE will work. And notice the buildings OUTSIDE of the lagoon. What's going to happen to them. (I know it's not Venice, but ... )

Here, we're talking about $3.6+BILLION for that SINGLE POINT OF ENTRY. With the protestations of all involved, there's no guarantee that it will ever be completed. Many scientists don't believe it will work the way it's intended. Venice has other problems (considering it's sinking and ocean/sea levels are rising, both at an alarming rate.) AND, since it's not done, it has not been "proved".

In other words, once again, we're talking "apples and oranges".

Read the Free Republic (FR) Articles and responses, especially the one I linked to (last source), above.

NOTE:

Many times I've found articles on here that are extremely political in nature. This one seems to be, too.

HOWEVER, it appears that this poster did quite a bit of research on the subject of the New Orleans Levees. Near the top is info on how the levees were designed and "upgraded".

Also from the FR entry:

NOTE: "CoE" in the above, and in the Free Republic articles is the "Army Corp of Engineers".

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The following pictures are of New Orleans Levee capwalls that have obviously been topped or failed. These lends credence to the image in the email being from a New Orleans Levee.

The point here is that these "capwalls" were built on top of huge earthwork levees, to help protect tides and surges higher than those walls. They DID do a good job, until Katrina.

And don't forget the fanatical historical (hysterical at times, it seems) societies who would have protested any thought of changing "the look and feel" of these walls, I'm sure. (And don't write if you're a historian or member of a historical society. I am my family's historian, and really wish I could come up with ways to keep and use many of the buildings I see that are ending up decaying to the point of NEEDING to be torn down!)

This tag line appears to have been added in a political blog. It's not part of the original.

Obviously, the person who added it thought they were making a point. But what? That there's corruption in politics? Sure there is. There's corruption in almost every business in the world. Does that mean all politicians are corrupt? No. Most politicians actually do what their constituents want and need. If they don't, they aren't re-elected.

Then again, opposition parties  - those opposed to a given political party or PERSON - ALWAYS claim something bad about the other. And, the media, who are supposed to be "impartial" tend to "slant" their stories, coving stories they want, uncovering truth (or someone's lie) and POUNDING it at us. Again, the media is always claimed to be too liberal or conservative, depending on which side the claimer is on.

All of this explains why there seem to be fewer and fewer politicians. No matter which party you belong to, no matter which way you "lean", if you BREATHED wrong (halitosis, not asthma - though even that shows "a weakness" to some - I'd like to see them explain that to the Olympians with asthma, or to Jerome "The Bus" Bettis!) when you were a kid, SOMEBODY in the media will find out, and it will haunt you when you're a 50-year-old running for the presidency. And the squeaky-clean ones (is ANYONE REALLY "squeaky-clean")? They don't have the balls to do anything ... at least that's the way the media would report it.

There's very little middle-ground, any more. No "shades of gray". If you vote "yes" or "no" on someone's favorite project, you're either too liberal or conservative to be good. (More later.)